Pierfrancesco-Handlebar incident
Okay - here's the complete text of the e-mail exchange for people to decide for themselves. Note that the time differences between east and west coast sometimes show up in the e-mail and sometimes the software gets it right. You can see that in most cases I respond to him in minutes! (even though he really sent me a lot of mail. Regardless there wasn't a mix-up and I think that things not only were very clear but that I spent a lot of time answering his e-mails.
These are in chronological order from earliest date to latest date. At some point and time it gets confusing because he paid me first then messaged me that he was going to pay me. No big deal here I wasn't the confused one. Read and decide for yourselves if everything was clear.
Regards,
David H. Park
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:28 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject:Hello David,
thanks for your posting. I think I am going to call the dealer and tell him to hold on on the handlebars if you have something for me? he asked $70 for them. Did you say you have a set of handlebars that you would like to sell to me? I would love to save some money here. Please, let me know. By the way, what is OEM? I am sorry, but I don't understand that .
THank you,
pierfrancesco
"David H. Park" <david@dhpmoto.com> wrote:
Pierfrancesco -I have OEM (original equipment manufacturer) handlebars from the '01 F650GS. Don't know if this is for your bike but could also work (ask on Chain Gang).Otherwise the Magura info is on my web site at:You'll want the last model for touring.I'll sell you the bars for $35 + shipping okay?David H. Park
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 11:26 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: Re: handlebars
Hello David,
thanks for your reply. I spoke with Magura, turns out that I would need the X LINE EX handlebar type (0721053). The guy there told me that if I get those on my bike, I will need clamps as well, because those I have on wouldn't work. Do you have the clamps to go with the handlebars?
Pierfrancesco
"David H. Park" <david@dhpmoto.com> wrote:
The clamps that work are the ProTaper univeral mounts - You can get these from www.zoomcycle.comDavid H. Park
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 11:40 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsSo, what's the deal? please, as you have found out already, I am hard of understanding low IQ person.
Do you mean I have to buy your handlebars then order clamps at www.zoomcycle.com? is this-honestly-convenient to me? Do I also need to buy new handgrips? and can you also tell me what type of heated grips I should buy to fit this whole project?
Thank you very much for your time and kind attention to my problem.
Pierfrancesco
PS
As I said, I cancelled my order with BMW, so, I hope that I can solve my problems with you here.
From: David H. ParkSent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 12:31 PMSubject: RE: handlebarsPierfrancesco -1. My handlebars are off a '01 BMW F650GS. I don't know what kind of bike you have but handlebars are handlebars and can be mounted to any bike most often. The only issue is that of steering lock and controls which you have to get from somebody else as I haven't tested these bars on another bike. Ask your BMW dealer if the bars from this bike will fit on yours if you don't have a GS (i.e. if you have a Funduro or an ST).2. The Magura bars are not what I have. Again, I have the BMW OEM bars from an '01 F650GS. As such I do not have the ProTaper mounting kit which if you want to install the Magura bars you'll have to order from Zoom Cycle or any other such retailer. Sorry if it's "not honestly convenient" for you as that's not really my business. Just trying to help with a set of BMW bars that would save you money or with a recommendation for a better set of bars.3. The BMW handgrips should work with the Magura bar but I didn't try as I replaced them with Renthal grips. I think that Kimpex makes heated grips but as I ride my bike for enduro purposes didn't try to do heated grips. I can't help you here, you'll have to ask others. If you can get your old grips off without destroying them then most often they can be put back on again.Hope this helps. Good luck.Regards,David H. ParkPS - do NOT cut the Magura bar to fit any kind of BMW heated grips. It weakens the bar and defeats the purpose of getting a better bar.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:10 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: Re: handlebars
David,I just spoke with the BMW dealer. He says he doesn't see why the GS handlebar wouldn't fit my bike. He says the clamps should be the same as well. So, I guess I could use your handlebars. So, how do you want to do this?Would you please also advise me on what to do about the handgrips? do I have to buy new ones? or can I just use the ones I have on my bike right now?
I would as well love some advice on which heated grip set to buy.
Thank you so much,pierfrancesco
"David H. Park" <david@dhpmoto.com> wrote:
Pierfrancesco -Where do you live? Give me your address and I will ship you the handlebars. I always put on new grips as it's cheap $10-15 but that's just me. Again, heated grips I don't have ANY advice on.You can pay me via www.paypal.com.So I propose:1. sending you the handlebars2. you sending me the money plus shipping via paypalokay. that's about all that I can do right now fairly busy with work and stuffplease let me know.David H. Park
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 5:04 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsHello again,
I am trying to get some heated hand grips so that they get in at the same time that the handlebar gets in so I can work on them. Is there anyway you could give me this info?
1. Handlebar diameter. ( 7/8" or 1")
2. Length of grip.
3. Do the ends of the grip need to be bored out for end weights.
Thanks!
Pierfrancesco
PS
let me know what else I should do to do the payment.
"David H. Park" <david@dhpmoto.com> wrote:
Pierfrancesco -Hi.I already told you that I don't have ANY information about the heated grips. You can see all available info on my website or contact Magura as they make the bars or contact BMW as they make their bars.Please re-read my previous message to you again:"okay. that's about all that I can do right now fairly busy with work and stuff"I'm writing this to you as a courtesy as I always try to respond to people with questions even when I am busy. However your questions are a bit too much. I don't know if I was clear before that right now I'm a bit busy and I don't really want to give you the blowoff or piss you off in any way but I'm REALLY BUSY at the moment and can't handhold you on this one.Again:"okay. that's about all that I can do right now fairly busy with work and stuffSorry. If you want to the handlebars I'll be happy to sell them to you. As for the application they are BMW handlebars so they should be prefit for the BMW heated grips. I didn't make the handlebar or grips so I don't know the specs and I'm really too busy to get them and measure them for you.Regards,David H. Park
----Original Message-----
From: pierfconsa@yahoo.com [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 9:46 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: handlebars
You've got cash!
Pierfrancesco Consalvo just sent you money with PayPal.
------------------------------
Payment Details
------------------------------
Amount: $35.00
Subject: handlebars
Note: Hey, here is the check. If you need extra money let me know. I
thought you said $35. My address: Pierfrancesco Consalvo <address/phone withheld>
Also please could you use UPS or something like that? mail here just won't work properly these days
-----Original Message-----
From: pierfconsa@yahoo.com [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:56 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: handlebarsHere is my address:
Pierfrancesco Consalvo
<address withheld>
How do I pay you via paypal? please, don't ship with US postal service. They are having problems over here, and the mail just doesn't get in.
Pierfrancesco
-----Original Message-----
From: pierfconsa@yahoo.com [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:00 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: handlebars
OK, I will send you a payment through paypal.
Regards,pf
"David H. Park" <david@dhpmoto.com> wrote:
It will be plus shipping. I'll let you know about this later.
I'll use UPS.
David P.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 10:16 aM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsDavid,
You should tell me when I will get the handlebars as I am trying to plan my work. I have a lot to do on the bike.
Pierfrancesco
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 1:20 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsHey, sorry to spam you. Please, ship it fast next day or something. I will pay.
pierfrancesco
---Original Message-----
From: david@dhpmoto.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2001 10:35 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsthey're going out today via UPS redDavid P.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 1:40 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsMuchissima gracias y abrazos.
---Original Message-----
From: david@dhpmoto.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2001 10:54 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsNo hay problema. Este fue muy facil hacer. Estoy muy occupado ahora pero tengo personsas que trabajan para mi que lo hicireon.
Ciao.David P.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 1:54 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsDavid I beg your pardon, could you please let me know the tracking number? I need to arrange so I can go pick the pack up at the UPS location.
Thank you, please forgive all the messaging.
pierfrancesco
---Original Message-----
From: david@dhpmoto.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2001 10:59 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsI'll do so later.David P.
Note - I dropped off the handlebars on the 7th for shipping and did not get a chance to check on any tracking information until much later.
I believe the bars were shipped either the 7th or the 8th via UPS red. When Pierfrancesco e-mailed me at 8:42 am on 11/8 I had nothing to do anymore with the shipping of the handlebars and couldn't change/stop it because it already was a done deal. He messaged me on 11/8 at 9:37 but I was extremely busy as I told him and didn't get the message nor his message of 10:49 until much later. Besides the fact that the deal was done and the package was already shipped.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 8:42 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsdid you find out what's the tracking number?
-----Original Message-----
From: david@dhpmoto.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 8:45 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebars
These are leaving today.DAvid H> PArk
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2001 9:37 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsin that case can you do regular shipping? this is going to cost me as much as new handlebars.
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2001 10:49 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsHey david, if you can confirm that you haven's shipped, I would like to cancel.
THank you,
Pierfrancesco
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2001 7:00 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsI ordered handlebars at the local dealer. I hope you will refund my money back to me.
-----Original Message-----
From: david@dhpmoto.com
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2001 7:53 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsPierfrancesco -I went through significant trouble to take time out of my extremely busy schedule to answer all of your questions and to send the handlebars via UPS red.These have already been sent to you. I expect you fully to remain committed to our original deal and to keep the handlebars that I sold to you AND to pay for the UPS red shipping.Regards,David H. Park
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2001 8:02 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsWell, I am afraid you will have to pay for shipment.Regards,Pierfrancesco.
-----Original Message-----
From: david@dhpmoto.com
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2001 8:15 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsNo. I will NOT pay for shipment. The handlebars have already left for you. I did everything you asked in good faith according to your instructions. You are responsible for the shipping expenses and I expect to be REIMBURSED for these today when I provide them to you later on.Regards,David H. Park
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2001 8:27 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsI am sorry, you didn't reply my emails. I am not going to reimburse to you anything.
-----Original Message-----
From: david@dhpmoto.com
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2001 9:32 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsPierfrancesco -
I was PAID for the handlebars but not for the UPS Red shipping (which YOU requested)."I'll sell you the bars for $35 + shipping okay?" - DHP from my initial repl to your e-mail"Hey, sorry to spam you. Please, ship it fast next day or something. I will pay." - Pierfrancesco
If you want to return the handlebars to me and pay for all my expenses incurred then fine. After I get the handlebars back I'll write you a check for the purchase price. That's a fair an equitable way to deal with it but for you to expect me to pay for your change-of-heart after I helped you out so much is illogical behavior.
So Pierfrancesco, what will it be?
a) Keep the bars and pay for the shipping.($69.14 plus $35 refund)
b) Return the bars and pay for the shipping and other expenses incurred. ($71.30)In summary, you owe me $66.64 for the UPS red shipping, $1.32 for the first PayPal transaction fee, $3.00 for the second transaction (sending the shipping and other monies), and $.34 for the first class stamp to get you your check (envelope is free). Total is $71.30 which you can send me via PayPal. After I receive the handlebars then I will mail you a check back.If you want to keep the handlebars then you have to send me $66.64 for the shipping plus $2.50 for the transaction fee for a total of $69.14.
Regards,
David H. Park
-----Original Message
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo
[mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 6:58 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.comSubject: RE: handlebars
I think we need to talk. Would you give me a call? If you want, you give me your number andI will call you right back. I received your parcel today, by the way. So, please call.
-----Original Message
From: david@dhpmoto.com
[mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 9:16 PM
To: Pierfrancesco ConsalvoPierfrancesco -
Sorry, I really don't have time nor the inclination to talk. It's a simple deal, I've given you two options. You agreed to buy the handlebars and pay for the shipping. You specified UPS red. I complied. I took care of it even though I was really busy putting it ahead of my work. Now you change your mind and want me to eat the shipping, not kosher. Sorry but I'm not going to waste more time on this - choose one of the two options which are more than fair, reasonable and normal for resolving issues like this.
Regards,
David H. Park
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 9:22 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsI am sorry too. I can't pay 100 dollars for what I can get new for 70. they don't even fit my bike well. I am going to ship it back to you.
Pierfrancesco
-----Original Message
From: david@dhpmoto.com
[mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 9:40 PM
To: Pierfrancesco ConsalvoPierfrancesco -
You owe me the shipping. Simple as that. My recourse is small claims court which I'm just mad enough to go and file here in California just for the experience of it all. You really need to learn to be responsible for your own decisions and mistakes.
I will not accept the package from you until we come to a final agreement. It will be refused by my mailing agent and returned to you. Your acceptance of the package fufills a legal obligation to complete the contract entered in to you via e-mail agreement of the terms that I proposed. You must live up to those terms.
Regards,
David H. Park
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 9:48 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsare you blackmailing me? what the heck do you want. You lured me in with your dirty trade. I would have never accepted to pay this much for used crappy handlebars. We spoke on tuesday, and I received them friday night. II am supposed to pay 100 dollars now just because you try to terrorize me by posting nasty words about me on the web. You really are annoying me with your stupid arguing. you want 60 dollars from me and then you shut your mouth? is that what you want? I can't believe I had to deal with someone aftter a few dozens of bucks. I offered to speak with you, you refuse, rather you like to speak your nasty tongue against me. So, now I have to buy your crappy stuff, and you threaten me with a lawyer? I don't know whether I should just pay you and get rid of the annoying thought of having your emails, or yeld to my desire of vengeance. you sound like one of those little guys who like to win at all costs. I don't mind the money, I did something stupid dealing with you. If I ship your crap back to you, it would cost me more than pay for new ones. So, I took it up my butt, I will pay you, and I hope that I won't come across your stupid H name again in my life. Listen, have your lawyers write me a letter, I will be glad to trash it.
Pierfrancesco
-----Original Message
From: david@dhpmoto.com
[mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 10:31 PM
To: Pierfrancesco ConsalvoNo. I am not blackmailing you. I'm not threatening you with a lawyer either. It's small claims court not civil court.
I've simply stated my position and offered you two options for resolution. If you don't want to take either of those options then it's your choice and I'll just follow through with my claim which I'm perfectly entitled to do.
I'm not terrorizing you by posting nasty words about you on the web. What is posted is simply the course of events. The issue is simple, you chose to buy the handlebars, you chose the shipping method and agreed to pay for shipping, you paid for the handlebars, I complied in shipping them, you owe me the money for shipping. This is simply not something that I will argue about with you.
Your e-mail is a bit confusing and rambling so I'll extract the important part in which you state:
"So, I took it up my butt, I will pay you, and I hope that I won't come across your stupid H name again in my life."
Okay, so you agree to pay me for the shipping expense which is the right thing as you agreed to it. It's not $60 though. As I stated in my previous e-mail the amount that you owe me is $69.14 which I'll accept via PayPal. After I receive this I'll consider the shipping reimbursement part of the transaction closed. You'll have the bars, I'll have my payment and reimbursement for your shipping and we'll be done.
Okay? I look forward to receiving the payment via PayPal after which I'll write you an e-mail stating that I have no further claim against you for this.
Regards,
David H. Park
PS - the handlebars are not "used crappy handlebars" they are taken off a brand new F650GS that was never ridden.
----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 11:01 PM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsstop patronizing me. your version of the facts is partial. I never agreed to pay 70 dollars shipping. Why would I pay that much money for an old piece of crap shipped to me? You put conditions, but you aren't entitled to put conditions. I am just as free as you are. i haven't ispectioned the crap in that box yet. However I already understand that you haven't shipped to me the clamps that come with it, which I would have gotten from the store. I emailed you only shipped your piece of crap to me yesterday, when I had emailed you not to do that. you had another day where you just waited around. Because of your silence, I had ordered a REAL handlebar set from the store. They will charge me if I don't take it with some sort of fee. Depending on how much is that fee, I will then decide how much to pay you. Then you can go to court, do whatever the hell you want.
-----Original Message
From: david@dhpmoto.com
[mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 11:11 PM
To: Pierfrancesco ConsalvoPierfrancesco -
I'm not patronizing you and my version of the facts is complete. You agreed to pay for shipping and requested UPS red shipping. It was not my requirement to see how much the shipping was and inform you. You chose the method of shipping, agreed to pay for said shipping, and I simply complied with your requests.
I clearly stated my conditions in my e-mail to you and you clearly agreed with them. You asked about a handlebar, I told you that I had a handlebar and that's what you agreed to pay me for, and that's what I shipped you.
I did not wait around another day. I dropped the package off for shipping on Wednesday the day after I confirmed receipt of payment. There was no express nor implied shipping date and everything was done as per your instructions to ship UPS red.
I won't dignify your comment on a "REAL" handlebar. That's pretty funny. The store will charge you if you don't take it - well that's not my problems for your indecisiveness and impetuousness as a consumer. What you owe me is NOT dependant upon that fee. Not acceptable. You owe me $69.14 in full.
Regards,
David H. Park
-----Original Message-----
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [
mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 6:11 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsLook, the version of the facts through your eyes is just not the same that it looks from my eyes. You have been saying since the beginning that you don't have time, we could have tried to discuss this over the phone, instead you wasted much more of yours and MY time by writing annoying emails to me. You just don't seem to realize that your version of the facts is not right for me. I NEVER EVER AGREED TO PAY SUCH A HIGH FEE FOR SHIPMENT. In my opinion, through my eyes, you should have asked before shipping at such a high price.
I just understand that you are a litigious person, who likes to feel like they are always right, no matter how much they are going to encroach in the lives of other people. You stated since the beginning that you were doing this as A FRIEND. look what you have done:
1- you shipped to me handlebars that are of no use to me.
2- the handlebars are BLACK
3- they are TOO WIDE to fit my bike
4- YOU DIDN"T SHIP CLAMPS
5- YOU ARE ASKING ME TO PAY YOU A HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR SOMETHING I CAN BUY FOR NEW FOR 70.AS I said I can't take this anymore. ANd because I feel you are an evil nasty person, I am NOT GOING TO PAY YOU 70 DOLLARS AND SHIP YOU BACK THE HANDLEBARS BECAUSE IT"S NOT RIGHT IN MY OWN VIEW.
My CONDITIONS are the following:
1- I ship the handlebars back to you
2- we will split the cost for shipping it back to youThis is because I feel that you have your own responsibilities for
1- having made my life much harder
2- disturbing my privacy
3- saying nasty things about me
4- BECAUSE THE HANDLEBARS YOU SENT ME ARE JUST NOT RIGHT and you KNEW that from the beginningand
5- GET THIS STRAIGHT! YOU NEVER TOLD ME I WAS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY 70 BUCKS FOR SHIPMENT.
Now, THESE ARE MY CONDITIONS Mr. H. If you don't accept them, I will ship the handlebars back to you and you won't get any single dollar from me. And if you refuse to accept them, I will refuse them as well. So they will sit in a UPS store instead than in your junkyard.
Now, I feel that I am showing to you a lot of good will and libearality by offering to return to you your money MINUS half the price to ship it back to you. I am strongly tempted to add to that a FINE TO YOU of at least 10 BUCKS because of all the distress, the disturb, the TIME THAT YOU WASTED, and also because YOU LURED ME INTO A TRANSACTION BY SAYING YOU WERE DOING IT OUT OF LIBERAL DISPLAY OF FRIENDLINESS, and instead you are dealing with me in a completely different manner. This is all I have to say, besides that you OWE ME APOLOGIES, that THIS SITUATION IS CAUSING ME GREAT DISTRESS that I wasn't looking for and that I don't deserve. You CAUGHT MY BONA FIDE, and more in general you weren't a gentleman to get me in this much trouble, not even accepting to talk to me over the phone. You showed since the beginning that you are constantly after confronting people, bringing them annoyance and disturb. I don't want to deal with you any longer. Please accept the conditions I am giving you, or accept that you will lose money. If you don't accept this, let me hear from your lawyers.
From: david@dhpmoto.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 6:11 AM
To: Pierfrancesco
Subject: RE: handlebarsPierfrancesco -
1. You agree to pay for shipping
2. I dropped the handlebars off and told my shipper to ship them as per your instructions
3. It was not my responsibility to inform you of how much shipping was going to cost
4. I was not going to wait around and find out how much it was going to cost and inform you because
a) it was not my responsibility to do so
b) you specified how you wanted them shipped
c) you agreed to pay for shipping5. It doesn't matter that you think that my version of facts isn't right for you. A court will obviously decide this.
6. I am NOT a litigious person, it's just not correct that I should lose money on this transaction because I'm not at fault
7. As a friend I expect that my friends take responsibility for their actions
8. We had a complete discussion on the handlebars exchanging information and verifying what they were. You had ample time to ask for more information, a photo, etc. If they are too wide, I'll be glad to take them back, but again you need to cover the shipping to make me whole. That's the proper way to do this. You checked with a dealer to verify this. It's not my responsibility for the final fit. I took all proper steps to get you the information as to what I had to sell - the rest is your responsibility.
9. Clamps are not part of the deal. Our deal was for a handlebar, that's it. You asked about clamps for the Magura bar and I told you that I didn't have clamps. You need to review what you asked for and what you were sent.
a) In your e-mail of November 06, 2001 11:26 AM you asked about clamps for the Magura bar
b) I told you that if you were going to buy the Magura bar (not what I sold you) that you could get the clamps at a dealer who's name I provided
c) On Tuesday, November 06, 2001 12:31 PM I again specified what bars I had, and gave you the rest of the specification and qualifications.
d) In that same e-mail it was clear what I knew what worked and didn't and that it was your responsibility to determine fit/applicability
e) In a subsequent e-mail you told me that you did this and then you went ahead and purchased the bars10. The final financial cost of the transaction is purely your fault for your decision in the shipping method. I have no responsibility whatsoever in this. I sold you the handlebars for $35 when you said that dealer pricing was $70. I was going to sell you the handlebars for $50 but since you've said many times on the F650.com board that you have money problems I decided to give you a break.
11. Feel as you will about me. It doesn't matter. This is a simple transaction between two people which is entitled to have different sides. I feel that I've been more than equitable in giving you a path of recourse to (a) return the bars to be and receive your full $35 back or (b) keep the bars. Both of these paths however do require that you pay me for the shipping which was your prior committed obligation to do so in plain English and with your full acknowledgement. So as you say "GET THIS STRAIGHT!" - it was your choice of shipping method, you agreed to pay for shipping, it was NOT my responsibility to inform you of the shipping price, I dropped off the bars and asked that they be shipped.
12. I will NOT split the cost of any return shipping nor shipping to you. I have previously given you the amounts that I am owed whether you keep or return the bars and that is my final position.
13. I owe you no such apology as you state, in fact it should most likely go the other way around as you're in the wrong according to my opinion. However I neither need nor request such an apology from you. Simple pay the shipping that you owe me and decide to keep or return the bars (in which case you'll get your $35 back).
14. A $10 fine is a cute idea but not something that happens in the real world where this issue is. Perhaps in your fantasy world where you arbitrarily change your mind and expect other people to pay for your indecision and mistakes this happens, but not in my experience and definitely not where this issue exists.
15. Time has been wasted on both parts most often by you through your repetitive e-mail messaging of me, each one that I took the time to answer (as always) even though many times you asked the same question over and over again that I previously gave definitive answers to.
16. I lured you into no such transaction. That's another ludicrous fantasy statement. You sent me the initial e-mail. You communicated of your own free will and made up you own mind (then changed it). The transaction was done in simple terms all of which you agreed to. You need to take responsibility for your own actions.
17. While it’s my nature to protect people from trouble as a gentleman it's not my responsibility. Again you specified the shipping, demanded that it be sent next day air (which it was), agreed to pay for shipping, I simply complied with your instructions and expect fully to be paid.
18. I'm not after confronting people. Personally, I don't want to deal with you either but really don't have a choice as you owe me the money for shipping and also have my handlebars (unclear as to whether or not you keep them, you've stated in a previous e-mail that you will keep them and now this e-mail makes it unclear).
Pierfrancesco, this really is a simple matter and you DO owe me the full amount in shipping. Your terms are not acceptable. If you want to pay me the shipping as I've specified in either option (keeping or sending the handlebars back) then either one of these options will successfully resolve this dispute. I implore you to take me up on either one of these offers as if I don't have this resolved in this manner I will (and this is not a threat it's simply a notification) seek my local legal recourse to get repaid for the shipping. It's simply a matter of principle. I've done nothing wrong, I'm owed the money, and you need to pay me.
This is the last e-mail that you will get from me discussing the issues of the matter before I seek my alternative legal recourse. If you want to avoid this please exercise one of the two options that I have outlined in paying me the shipping which is owed and/or returning the bars. Sorry, but you owe me the shipping, repayment on any other terms than the ones that I have outlined is unacceptable to me and the subject is non-negotiable.
Regards,
David H. Park
From: Pierfrancesco Consalvo [mailto:pierfconsa@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2001 8:49 AM
To: david@dhpmoto.com
Subject: RE: handlebarsGo find help, you are sick.
From here the saga continued on the Chain Gang www.f650.com web site. I've excerpted the following posts to keep the exchange current
Pierfrancesco #1020 - 10-Nov-01
For DH park
David,just so you know, I haven't posted any message here concerning what happened. If anyone is curious to know, David shipped to me handlebars for $70 overnight. He also asked me for $35 to pay for the handlebars themselves, which amounts for a total $105. I feel David should have checked with me before shipping something for such a high price, i find this just common sense. I have offered to David to pay him another $35 and ship his handlebars back to him. He not refuses this. So, I am just going to ship him back the handlebars. That's all.
David H. Park, #711 - 10-Nov-01
Pierfrancesco's offerPierfrancesco -
Anybody who wants to keep the facts straight just needs to read the e-mail exchange at www.dhpmoto.com/Reports/Misc/handlebars
You'll see that Pierfrancesco's never made such an offer as he has just made here via the board:"I have offered to David to pay him another $35 and ship his handlebars back to him. He not refuses this. So, I am just going to ship him back the handlebars. That's all."
I've never received such an offer via private e-mail but since he's made one here I'll accept it and move on.
So this means that Pierfrancesco will:
1. Pay me $35 additionally (reimbursement for shipping expense) via PayPal.
2. Ship me back the handlebars at his cost via UPS ground.
3. I'm not refunding the original $35 that he paid for the bars as this goes toward the shipping expense.
I've provided him with my address in order for him to be able to do so. For the record this leaves me a bit short but what's a few cents between friends ;-).Just don't try to put yourself off Pierfrancesco as somebody who's made this offer and that I've refused it because it's clear by reading the e-mails that you've never made it and that you just wanted me to pay for your mistake.
If my understanding of your offer is correct then go ahead and send me the money via PayPal and the bars via UPS Ground.
Regards,
David H. Park
www.dhpmoto.com
david@dhpmoto.com
pierfrancesco #1020 - 10-Nov-01
RE: For DH park
I can't believe david posted my last name on here. the wording of my email to him when I asked for shipping was 'ship it fast'. How does this authorize anyone to do such a crazy thing to ship for $70 without EVER ASKING MY EXPLICIT consensus?
My offer to this sick puppy man is that I am going to ship his pack back to him (which I would do anyway, because I am sure his stuff brings bad luck and I woudl crash and die with it) and refund him another $35 MINUS HALF THE SHIPPING COSTS that will be charged to me to ship his pack back to him.
Be as it may it's ridiculous how this guy instead of speaking to me (and i gave him my phone number) for like 20 dollars or so threatens me of lawyers and what have you. Besides, I really can't believe he posted my UNDISCLOSED last name here. Now, you all please leave me alone.
David H. Park, #711 - 10-Nov-01
The proof is in the pudding
Pierfrancesco -
There you go again. Proving to everybody how you change your mind and don't stick to your word.
Your post with the offer was:"I have offered to David to pay him another $35 and ship his handlebars back to him."
Since I've already rejected a previous offer from you via e-mail to split the shipping costs from you to me, why would I accept such an offer now?
It's really your responsibility to return the handlebars to me just like Iceman returned the fork caps to me. That's why I posted a clarification but you still try to get out of your responsibility. Not cool.
Just ship the handlebars back (at your expense) via UPS ground or US mail, send me $35 via PayPal, and we'll be done.
That's more than fair and equitable.Regards,
David H. Park
www.dhpmoto.com
david@dhpmoto.com
David H. Park, #711 - 10-Nov-01
BTW...BTW Pierfrancesco -
It's not as you claim like "$20". When you wrote me in e-mail saying that you weren't going to pay the shiping that's like $68.00 a big difference plus you had the handlebars (which you paid for) but I wasn't sure if you were going to keep them or not. Either way it's not the money, it's the principle, but then again you wouldn't understand that.
Regards,
David H. Park
www.dhpmoto.com
david@dhpmoto.com
note - this other message is inserted to maintain thread consistency
tomw#773 - 10-Nov-01
Ox Bow Incidentthis whole incident reminds me of that classic book/ movie...
all chain gang members:i helped p/f with his bike today and had a chance to hear HIS side of the story -- i think this is a case of "i'll pay you $ 35 plus shipping" and dhp not telling p/f that the shipping would be twice the price of bars themselves and p/f not asking for what the shipping would be beforehand -- honestly, i think it was poor judgment on both parties' behalf
dhp: i think this could have been resolved between two adults without 1) trying to embarrass a fellow chain ganger 2) putting ultimatums on this board as if you're george w. talking to the taliban; and 3) printing p/f's full name without his consent
pierfrancesco #1020 - 10-Nov-01
RE: For DH parkThank you Tom! anyway, fyi I came to know through a common friend here on teh board that I actually emailed DHP once saying to ship it overnight. So, based on that information I am just going to pay him back the money he spent and ship his stuff back to him at my own costs, and this is because I do honor my word. I do STILL feel that he should have warned me that the shipping costs were high. Had he told me about the $70 I would have said to ship it second day or something instead. However, he has been giving me such a headache that I will bow to this situation now and pay him.
I am sorry to you and to those who know me about this incident, not to DHP though. I really can't believe he made such fun of my full name on a public board. he wasn't authorized to use my full name, and he could have handled this thing without making me look like a fool by just giving me a call, or letting me call him.
David H. Park, #711 - 10-Nov-01
-->> Tom 773tomw773 -
That's your opinion and you're perfectly entitled to it.
If Pierfrancesco specifies UPS red shipping then that's what I do. I have no (read that ZERO) obligation to examine a price and provide it to him.Read my notes on the e-mail transcript. I dropped the bars off at the shipper with the address and said "send 'em Red" - this is the same thing as in a big corporation when thing go to the mail dept. you don't get up front prices, if Pierfrancesco wanted to know this I would have been happy to provide him with this, but he didn't ask so I didn't do. It's the buyers responsibility not the senders. It's more than Caveat Emptor in this case - he truly got what he asked for - Next Day UPS Red shipping - and he clearly agreed to pay shipping as part of the transaction. Courts and the law are very clear on this there is no gray area (I know the UCC FOB laws very well).
As far as resolution goes. I wrote to Pierfrancesco many times (again see the exchange) giving him options which I thought were fair and equitable. I had no obligation to talk to him on the phone. Because I was very busy dealing with it via e-mail was better and gave a better trail of the conversation (just look at how Pierfrancesco gets angry and deparages me personally when I remain calm and deal with the facts of the situation at-hand).
2. I didn't put any ultimatums up on this board just offers. He's free to accept, reject, or counteroffer anytime. You need to go study your law.
3. No authorization was required nor granted. Case closed.
Regards,
David H. Park
www.dhpmoto.com
david@dhpmoto.com
David H. Park, #711 - 10-Nov-01
Final solution - PierfrancescoPierfranesco -
You didn't need to know through a common friend that this was the case. Simply re-read the e-mail exchange and you'll see that this was blatantly clear.
I'm glad that you're doing the right thing and honoring your word. It took a while but it's the right thing to do.Feel what you want, that's your right. I followed your instructions, played by the rules, and you should (and now are) too.
I'm sorry that you have such ill malice toward me. Hopefully someday you'll work that out. I have none toward you, just know that I won't be doing any commercial transactions with you based on my recent experience. ;-)
We had a complete and rich conversation by e-mail covering all the aspects. You were adamant that I pay for your mistake (shipping) you brought up numerous reasons as to why you shouldn't pay including many things that were factually incorrect about the deal (i.e. clamps, etc.). The truth as always stands on it's own.
I'll look forward to putting this behind with the receipt of the PayPal funds and the return of the handlebars.
Regards,
David H. Park
www.dhpmoto.com
david@dhpmoto.comPS - please note that I did NOT disclose your address or phone #. I did not need to do this but did so out of courtesy and respect for your privacy. Your name is your name well known to me and other club members via various means. No authorization required (you should go take your LSATs).
pierfrancesco #1020 - 10-Nov-01
RE: For DH parkDHP, get a life.
David H. Park, #711 - 10-Nov-01
Donation to the Chain GangPierfranesco -
If you haven't sent me the $35 yet via PayPal, I'd like for you to send it to Steve at the Chain Gang instead. I'm giving this to the Board/Community as a charitable donation.
Note, this is 'not' any donation from your part as you owe me the money, I just think that it's a nice thing to do to support the community at this time to continue to help defer site operations costs. 'tis better to give than receive.
If you send it directly to Steve we can save a few bucks in service fees from PayPal (i.e. from you to my account to the Chain Gang). Now this is saving money!
Ride on everybody!
Regards,
David H. Park
www.dhpmoto.com
david@dhpmoto.comPS - Nothing else changes, still send me the handlebars.